Dreams can come true

God definately tells us things in the strangest ways. I havn’t had a talking donkey experience, or been swallowed by a behemoth, but there have been dreams and prophesies with relevence in my life.

I think dreams are a largely reflective process of the brain and understanding the psychology and neurology of why we dream is an important aspect of woking out what dreams mean.

Lets not forget that dreams are unusual experiences and I don’t know anyone who can tell you exactly what they dreamt last night in the same way they could be specific about what they put in their shopping basket.

Probably a safer way to engage with God is to take up the justice thread of the Christian faith. Although it’s often overlooked, justice gives you the oppertunity to develop a God perspective on the world and “be Jesus” to others in the way you love and serve.

Justice may not have a the wow factor of dreams, but it’s effective and Jesus was kind enough to leave us “the poor” so that there would always be somethig to do.

Maybe books on gifts like dreams prophesey, healing and words of knowledge are more popular because they have a Davinci Code escapism about them. -you know that there’s some fact in there, but applicable truth might be thin on the ground.

Thanks for the comment but I think we might be on slightly different threads.

I find it interesting the way you group dreams with the charismatic gifts and label them escapism. Maybe you could explain this a little.

While I agree that we should be seeking justice, helping the poor, and letting our actions do the talking I do not see why it is an either or choice.

I would argue that the gifts of the spirit are designed to aid our tasks on earth, not be separated from them. And I do not think I would place a dream in that category anyway.

If we do indeed receive dreams from God today then surly they are a means of communication rather a gift to help those around us?

……..’Jesus was kind enough to leave us “the poor” so that there would always be somethig to do’

This seems a bit of a strange statement? Do you think that Jesus could have removed all poor people when he was on earth?

……..’Although it’s often overlooked, justice gives you the oppertunity to develop a God perspective on the world and “be Jesus” to others in the way you love and serve. ‘

Who are these people that overlook Justice?

……’but applicable truth might be thin on the ground’

I read truth everywhere in the bible about a Jesus who heals and fullfills prophecies, and calls us to do the same.

I think I look at some gifts as escapism when there is too much emphasis on them. From the places I have worshiped and the places I’ve seen through ministry, there are some organisations that end up with so much emphasis on theory that the practice of useful things tends to be overlooked. I know more churches that encourage speaking in tongues than the reading of scripture in public. We are encouraged in scripture to do both of these things.

We need to find a balance in everything we do. The majority of churches spend the majority of their money on activities that benefit people who are members. That should change.

Dreams are an unusual gift, because they are so prevalent outside of Christendom. there are few people that do not dream. While God may speak to us through them, maybe we should consider those to be the exception and not the rule. I think God talks to us more than we know, but we quite often reject what he has to say because it is subtle and the fallen part of us may not want to hear it.

The bottom line is that the church may not be interested in justice because it has become “hard of Heart” over the issue. Consumer lifestyles make it harder to hear God over the noise of Playstations, 4×4 cars, shopping at T3sco and going for a St**b**ks coffee (even if you ask for Fairtrade) and an endless stream of mediocre stream of “Christian” lifestyle products.

I was being sarcastic when I talked about Jesus being kind enough to leave us the poor. I think poverty is just the flip side of obscene wealth. Maybe it’s not about God taking the poor away, but the need for us to consider poverty as the worst form of violence and helping to bring a halt in all its forms.

If you haven’t guessed yet, I would say that the western world is generally overlooking justice. The fact you can still go into a church and be handed a cup of N3scaf3 at the end of the meeting means that someone still hasn’t understood a crucial element to the Gospel and the lifestyle Jesus calls us to.

The applicable truth is there when you pray for healing or use a prophetic gifting. The same truth and justice needs to be brought to bear when you choose how and where to shop. I hear and see a lot of the prophecy and healing in justice ministries, but I don’t see a huge about of justice in the way many churches and Christians decide to be conspicuous consumers. Maybe the N1ke shirt is shouting “I don’t care about sweatshops and the people who suffer in them,” and that’s drowning out “Alleluia, Christ died to give me a chance to be a part of this world’s redemption.”

On the whole I agree with you. I too have been involved in churches that have placed too much emphasis on the so called spiritual gifts but they didn’t seem to allow it to permeate their lives. I am fortunate enough (if that is the correct term) at the moment to be in a Church who are very aware, and quite vocal on issues of trade justice etc. I must confess though that I certainly could take things more seriously. However, from the little I do know about it I think the situation is more complicated that some would have us believe. Buying ‘Fair Trade’ and wearing a ‘Make Poverty History” wrist band are all well and good, and I am not knocking them as they are certainly a good place to start, but I think many people, Christians and otherwise, are simply using these to alleviate their conscience and convince themselves that they are doing their bit.

I am also wary of simply bashing big companies. Just because they are big and successful, doesn’t make them evil. I know of at least one member of our team that might have something to say on that issue. *smile* We also need to watch that as ‘Fair Trade’ has become such a big issue (certainly in the U.K.) many large companies are buying up smaller ‘Fair Trade’ brands. For the moment at least, ‘Fair Trade’ sells.

That said, as I alluded too above, I believe the Church should be rallying these causes. Jesus said that the poor will always be with us. So with that in mind we will never ‘Make Poverty History’ but we still should be the ones who are pushing for justice.

I totally agree also with your call for balance. As I mentioned previously we are given gifts to use them. They are supposed to aid our tasks on earth; one of which is to look after the poor.

Just to finish off this rather long comment. I don’t believe (possibly somewhat controversially) that gifts and blessings are only given to Christians. As Christians we know their context, their worth, and how we are supposed to use them (at least that’s the idea). But there are people out there who don’t know Christ but are prophetic etc. They would tend to use such gifts (although they probably wouldn’t recognise them as gifts) for their own benefit. We are called to use them to extend the kingdom. As Bono so eloquently put it; “Blessings, not just for the ones who kneel……, luckily.”

Once again we are little of topic, but it’s a worth while discussion all the same. *smile*

There are so many points where people do just have a brush with justice to alleviate their conscience. I see it happen in church as much as it does outside. The smug look on the face of the person buying the Geobars from the Traidcraft stand is the same smug look on the face of the 4×4 driver dropping the bottles at the bottlebank.

There is no single set of actions that will make your life right with respect to justice issues. Like the rest of life, there’s grace, forgiveness and a lot of “daily taking up the cross” and/or “becoming more like Christ”

There needs to be a Godly attitude in campaigning as well. Are you being Jesus to the CEO of N1ke when you send in the 20th letter condemning their manufacturing techniques? Jesus only cleared the temple once, it wasn’t a recurring theme in the Gospels. I would like big brands to become some kind of stamp of assurance where ethical manufacturing is concerned.

So, if we are agreed that justice is an underlying aspect of salvation, maybe we can look forward to hearing more from the Threedays team about practical steps to pull our lifestyles into the kingdom. I’d say that the average Christian’s has far more to learn about justice than they have to learn about fruits of the Spirit or spiritual gifts. If you can get the ball rolling on justice I’m convinced you will see more kingdom situations happening quicker than Russ Parker’s litterary equivilent of hanging a dreamcatcher over your bed.

I don’t know how you plan this site, but let me get the ball rolling with some ideas for future articles….

“Cycle to work Threedays” How to leave your gas guzzler at home and take up biblical stewardship of creation with a bike ride to work.

Why shopping at A5da is as close as a modern Christian can get to eating food that was sacrificed to idols.

The consumer fetish of modern worship. Why do so many worship leaders feel they have to be recorded to feel like they’ve made it or the’re making a contribution? Is the craze for buying the results a waste of time and money? (This can be extended with a review of literature that looks at the social phenomenon of people using recording to prove to themselves they exist.)

You do raise some interesting points. It would be interesting to see what our resident worship leaders make of your last one. *smile*

While I do agree that issues of justice are important, please do not misunderstand me, I would not go so far as to say that it is an “…underlying aspect of salvation…”. To me that sounds a little to close to being ‘saved’ by works. Let’s get one thing completely clear; we enter relationship with God only by his grace and mercy. There is nothing we can do to earn that privilege. However, as our relationship develops then yes, we should see our mindsets and behaviour change. These are the obvious fruit that God is working in our lives.

While I’ve said that I think many people do get involved with such campaigns as Make Poverty History, Trade Justice Movement, etc to elevate their conscience I think the overriding factor in people not doing all that they can is actually a real lack of awareness. As I have said before, I am no expert on the subject, but even so, I probably know more than a great deal of people (testimony to a great deal of people no knowing a lot). So maybe some articles in this area would be a good idea. I’d have to do some research.

That said, I still think there is a place for articles such as what we have above because, as I have said before, this Christian life is about balance. It is not about what we do, it’s about how we relate, which in turn should effect what we do.