Mark 4 (kind of)

Thanks for that Rich, personally i don’t understand all the fuss. Yes, it was tragic and unfortunate, but all this talk of state funerals and such seems a little over the top. Would we be wanting a state funeral for David Bellamy if he died? Doubt it…but each to his own.

Mark 4 then….the calming of the storm has to be one of the most amazing and confusing events of Jesus’ ministry. So much so that it frightened the disciples, having been witness to something so extraordinary that they didn’t know what to do. They would have never seen anything like Jesus rebuking the wind and rain, so it’s natural for them to fear, doubts must have come into their minds about who this man was that they had devoted their lives to.

Is it just possible that Jesus himself realised for the first time just what he was capable of?!?

Your exactly right Dan, no one would want a state funeral for David Bellamy. Nice guy but he doesn’t have the same passion that Mr Irwin had. Maybe it is over the top having a state funeral for Steve but I think that illustrates my point even more, he has obviously had such an effect of people’s lives that the Aussies want to honour him, go for it recon.

As for calming the storm, defiantly one of the most amazing miracles. There was a great documentary on BBC 1 a few weeks ago looking at the miracles of Jesus. One of them was the calming of the storm. It really highlighted how incredible it was.

Firstly this wasn’t a little storm, this was a boat sinking squall (anyone seen white squall??). Now the disciples were experienced sea men and would have seen plenty of rough seas but they thought they were going to drown.

Now I have been to France with P&O and was violently sick but I have never experienced rough seas where I thought I was going to die, picture what that would be like, pretty bad.

They wake Jesus and he stands and says to the waves: “Quiet, be still.” Then the wind died down and it was completely calm. If you use your imagination and picture this scene it is pretty terrifying; they wondered who is this man?

I don’t know if I would use the word doubt’s Dan but they would have defiantly been thinking this guy must be more than just a prophet or teacher. Maybe this was the beginning of them realising that this person they were following was actually the Messiah.

Did Jesus just realise for the first time what he was capable of?? I think that Jesus knew exactly who he was, knew he was the Son of God, the creator of the universe and this is highlighted in his rebuke of the disciples. “Why are you so afraid? Do you still have no faith?” If Jesus was unsure that He had the power to calm the weather it would seem a strange thing to say.

I think that Jesus’ actions were part of His plan, part of the process of revealing that He was more than a good guy but the Son of God and the Messiah. For the disciples, I think there would have been a mixture of fear and excitement as they wondered what the future held for them and this Jesus.

Rich,

i don’t mean to contradict you, this forum is obviously about asking questions and discovering God together. The thing for me is that if as you say Jesus was in full knowledge of who he was, and knew what he was capable of doing, why didn’t he tell the disciples that? There is a shock factor associated here, the disciples reaction was completely natural because they were facing the unknown. Jesus rebukes their lack of faith…and then follows that statement with something that a) never seen before and b) had never been done before!

What i’m trying to get at is that if Jesus was fully man (which he was), don’t you think the revelation that he was the Son of God might be a huge thing for him to handle? As man, he had the same emotions and feelings that we do. Could it not be that Jesus was in full and complete understanding of his purpose and position later in his ministry, and not right at the beginnning? Because if it was at the start, surely he would have told his disciples, wouldn’t he?

I’m with Rich on this one. I think Jesus was well aware of who He was and what He was about.

We know that Jesus was around at the beginning (John 8:58, John 17:5, to cite just a couple). But this doesn’t really answer the question as to when he became aware during his human experience.

We know very little about Jesus’ Childhood from scripture but at the age of 12 he seemed to know who he was. (Luke 2:39-52). Specifically take a look at verse 49-50 for a big clue of his understanding. I don’t think that this means he knew everything at this stage. If he did then the verse which talks about him asking questions (maybe to refine his knowledge of scripture) and few verses later when it says he grew in knowledge and stature simply don’t make sense. But He defiantly knew that He was the Son of His father.

Why did He not just come straight out and tell His disciples? Who knows? He certainly gave them lots of clues. Maybe He felt that they were not ready for the information. There area a number of occasions when Jesus tells people to not share information about Him. (Water into wine miracle, healing the leprous man to name but two) Also, when casting out demons, he often commanded them to not reveal His identity so it clearly was a deliberate withholding of information in the early days.

Trying to put myself in the position of the disciples I think I would have laughed at some new teacher / preacher / miracle worker if He told me that He was God. No matter how convincing His teaching and preaching, or how magnetic His personality that is quite some claim. I think that is something that; if it was to be believed, needed to be worked out by the disciples for themselves.

Of course, when the time was right, Jesus did directly challenge Peter as to whom he thought Jesus was. Matthew 16:16 gives his answer:

“Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.””

I like your point there Bob about why it was that Jesus didn’t just come out with telling them he was the Son of God, didn’t think of it that way.

When he was young, he would have been spending a lot of time learning, asking questions, listening to scripture and Jewish history and heritage. Guess that’s how the foundation had to be laid for him to know that the things he was doing later on were fulfilling OT scripture. Makes sense really…

Good to have some proper discussion for a change